Hall of Famer Willie Mays was a guest on ESPN's Sunday Conversation with Peter Gammons this weekend. Amongst other notable topics, Gammons asked Mays whether he thought he could have hit 800 home runs if he hadn't played so many games in the windy and spacious Candlestick Park. Here was Mays' response:No, not that. I think the Army, if I didn't have to go into the Army, which I had to go for my country, I would've hit 800 home runs or more. Let's say I played the schedule of 110 games in the Army, that's like 40 home runs a year. So you take that and you add it on to the 660, I think I would've been way ahead of everybody.Well let me just say this -- Wilie Mays is full of crap. I don't know if he's senile in his old age or what, but he only missed one full season, and most of a second. Not even two full seasons. Being generous -- and I mean very generous -- I'll give Willie 100 home runs in the games he missed because of the Army. That still only gives him 760 home runs, which last time I checked, wasn't quite 800. But considering Mays only had four home runs in 34 games during the 1952 season, when he left for the military, it would be a stretch to say he would've even hit 40 on the year. And considering Mays won the MVP in 1954, his first season back, the argument that his skills diminished while he was in the Army does not hold much water.
While Willie's career accomplishments are impressive, his service time in the Army is not a reason why he did not reach 800 home runs. Now if you want to see someone whose career numbers were seriously impaired because of military service time, check out Ted Williams. Man, he missed five seasons during his career for World War II and Korean War service, and as Matt Watson pointed out, Williams didn't even skip a beat upon his return either time.
UPDATE: The Lineup Card examined some data regarding park factors that suggest Mays could have hit over 800 home runs. Looks like Gammons was on-point with his question, while Mays was off-base with his answer.
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 3)
1. Willie pulled this garbage in the past with the 30/30 club. He said - If I knew everyone was going to make a big deal out of it - I would have done it. So, Willie admits that he didn't give it his best every day.
He should be modest and discuss what Ted Williams would have done without time out for his military service.
Posted at 8:31AM on May 7th 2007 by Adam
2. Willie Mays had more class in his used socks, underwear and jock than Bonds has in his drug-enhanced uniform. Aaron too for that matter. Those 2 were men playing in troubled times when Negroes, (yesteryear's term), weren't accepted well as today's Black players. Barry Bonds is a fathead...drug-expanded or not. He'll break the record but I truly hope it takes all year and hits .217 or so. His ego sickens me. Mays played with enthusiasm, Aaron with quiet dignity and even Ernie Banks dripped with class...Bonds acts like a street thug with constipation...
Posted at 8:51AM on May 7th 2007 by Leo Swigonski
3. Sure he could have hit 140 more homeruns...or 5 more...we'll never know. How many could he have hit if he played today in leagues where the pitching pool is dilluted because there are so many more teams...or with smaller ballparks...or with a 162 game schedule instead of 154 game schedule when he played? They are all just meaningless hypothetical questions. Gosh, how many more could Hank Aaron have hit playing under these conditions today?
How many more home runs could Babe ruth have hit if he was playing today's conditions, and hadn't spent several years as a major league pitcher and went to a gym everyday instead of a bar?
They're all fun questions for fans to kick around, but they don't mean a hill of beans!
Posted at 9:50AM on May 7th 2007 by Neil
4. What do you know Larry Brown? You don't have the qualifications to lick dog doo off of Willie's cleats, much less atone to whether or not Willie could have hit 800. It's obvious that he doesn't like the idea of a meathead like Bonds being the spotlight right now. True, Ted Williams is the man, but what does that have to do with Willie Mays' legacy?
Posted at 1:09PM on May 7th 2007 by ryan
5. Using the Splinter's seasonal averages, he calculates out to 692 HRs. I agree with the comments regarding extenuating circumstances effecting the numbers of many great players. To vilify Wille Mays for his thoughts is preposterous. His statement does not place ahead or behind any of his peers; it is simply an answer to a question. Lay off him.
Posted at 1:34PM on May 7th 2007 by Boze
6. Sorry Adam, but your contention that Mays didn't play hard every day based on his statement about the relative unimportance of 30/30 in his time is a laughably inaccurate interpretation and twisting of his words into what you'd prefer them to convey. It's amazing how dumb and slanted some folks are, but I suppose you should have paid more attention in school and learned more. People like you should hesitate before EVER publicly commenting on anything as I'm guessing this isn't the first time you've embarrassed yourself with unintelligent thoughts and had to be put in your place.
Posted at 1:44PM on May 7th 2007 by jerry
7. Willie Mays was class all the way. If you ever watched him in Candelstick you would agree he was in a class all his own. I saw Mays unbelivable performances many times being from the bay area. I dont care what his record was . He was the greatest.
Posted at 2:01PM on May 7th 2007 by joe hamma
8. Willie is saying this now to have us believe that breaking Hanks record was fairly easily attainable. He is trying to justify Barry Bonds drug-induced march toward the home run record. Protecting his god-son. It is no surprise that EVERYONE except SF Giants fans and the players union think that Bonds records should be wiped off the books and he should be banned for life as he rots in prison for this travesty.
Posted at 2:06PM on May 7th 2007 by Robin Olsson
9. Willie Mays has always been a whiner and complainer. Now he has added jealousy! Mickey Mantle would have hit more home runs than anyone if he didn't play in a ballpark with a 457 foot left-center-field and a right-center-field of 461 feet, walked 90-100 times a year and played hurt half the time. Willie Mays should go out and buy himself some personality!
John of Staten Island
Posted at 2:10PM on May 7th 2007 by John of Staten Island
10. Not to disrespect WILLIE MAYS, who was the greatest in his day, but you Bonds-haters and opinionated soothsayers are full of BS. Records are made to be broken -- Bonds has played during a time when his peers used steroids. He has never tested positive. That is the fact dummies! Willie Mays played in a different time, when the pitchers were mostly white bread. Hank Aaron played for 130 years before he sat down with his record. Stop bitching and enjoy the game!!
Mike Arkin
Posted at 2:23PM on May 7th 2007 by michael arkin
11. I heard the ESPN interview. I don't think it warrants some of the mean spiritedness I see exhibited by the writer of this article or the bloggers here. Willie Mays is a legend. I can't hit 4 homeruns, let alone several hundred.
Bonds is his Godson, wheter you or I agree with or like Bonds he (Mays)is simply standing behind him. Most of the interview was one more reporter getting another angle on this tired Bonds story.
Stats...If all things were equal, which they are not(all the ball parks were the same, they all pitched in the best of conditions, no one went to war, no one used drugs, everyone was tall, all had the same pitchers, same teams) we could accurately say the stats are comparable. Life is not perfect and the stats are what they are.
Posted at 2:33PM on May 7th 2007 by Jas
12. Just read the rest of the comments. Willie Mays was - hands down- the best, most complete ballplayer of all tie. Mickey Mantle could have been there, but he got injured (knees) early. Ted Williams I think was the best hitter of all time, and of course, Babe probably was the HR true king, or at least bigger than life when he played, but hats off to Hammering Hank for hanging in there and besting that record, and for being perhaps the nicest ballplayer of all.
And, assuming Barry Bonds goes by him, props to Barry, who didn't do anything that different than all the other players in the league, except be sociable. he can be surly, no Q.
BTW - as for the Mick - he also pulled a lot of balls to the short porces in Yankee Field, especially to right.
Best. Tom in San Diego
Posted at 2:41PM on May 7th 2007 by Tom San Diego
13. You can say what you want About Barry. He has NEVER FAILED A DRUG TEST PERIOD!!!! Unlike some of the Drunks that use to PLAY.
Posted at 3:10PM on May 7th 2007 by Michael
14. i grew up 30 minutes from candlestick park and saw willie play hundreds of times. i even had the opportunity to play there once, which is when i learned that the wind and cold was actually worse down on the field. most of you were probably to young to remember willie, and his magic on the field, he was truely the total package. no one could compare to his skills in every facit of the game, or his knowlege on the field. my favorite player was mickey, but despite his greatness, he always seemed hurt, which illustrates how amazing his accomplishments were. having said all that, my feeling is that if the giants had moved to san diego instead of that hell hole at candlestick point, willie would definitely have distanced himself from everybody else in home runs. that field was a major factor in the homerun totals of everone that had the misfortune of having to play there. cepeda and mccovey come to mind..... so all of you, have your opinions-your entitled, and i have mine. willie was the best-no doubt.
Posted at 3:26PM on May 7th 2007 by MELOMW
15. If you have ever been to Candlestick - you would have seen Willie make his famous over the shoulder catches of many, many fly balls. The ball just died out there, and I wuold give him at least 5 more HR's a year for playing in cold, windy, cavernous Candlestick, and don't forget - he also played at the Polo Grounds for a few years.
Tom (now in San Diego).
Posted at 3:30PM on May 7th 2007 by Tom San Diego
16. i dont understand how everyone gets on Bonds.If he is on steroids and everyone else is on steroids how come no one else is putting up his kind of numbers? in the history of the steroid era, lets say the mid 90's until 2005 only 2 players out of thousands have hit 70 plus hommers in a season. how come this drug which supposedly gives you an edge has only given that edge to two players? i dont buy it. the fact is you still have to have great hand eye coordination to hit a baseball and at bonds' age and certainly not on anything at this time, he has shown that he still has great hand eye coordination.
Posted at 3:43PM on May 7th 2007 by erick c
17. I have my doubts if bonds has ever taken a legal roids test in his life. He probabley paid someone to take the test for him..As for Mays, i seriously doubt if 800 HR's were even in his thoughts or even possible in his days. Fields were smaller YES, but they didn't have the hard balls that they have today making it a lot easier to get the HR's that are flying around. Bonds will get caught yet. I hope the Grand Jusy nails him good which i think they will someday, then let's see what our great commissioner does with the rules.
Posted at 3:53PM on May 7th 2007 by crhaubere
18. Larry Brown is a disrespectful gaylord! how dare he disrespect Willie Mays and say that he's full of crap. He could have chosen a better choice of words, and I will now disregard anything this bastard has to say in the future. I don't think Willie would have hit that many, but Barry will so who cares?
Posted at 4:08PM on May 7th 2007 by lindenblack
19. LARRY BROWN IS FULL OF IT.NOT WILLE MAYS. OH BY THE WAY BARRY BONDS IS THE GREATEST BASEBALL PLAYER THAT EVER LIVED BAR FREAKING NONE. BABE RUTH COULDN"T HIT 210 IN THIS ERA.
Posted at 4:25PM on May 7th 2007 by money bags
20. This is what makes baseball the great sport it is... The numbers or the possible numbers someone might have put up if they didn't do this or that... To say Babe Ruth would hit only .210 in this watered-down pitching era is just nonsense.. My all-time outfield regardless of position... Babe Ruth,Ted Williams,Willie Mays someone else pick another 3 and i will take you on. But then you leave out others such as Hank Aaron,Stan Musial,Ty Cobb,Mickey Mantle and Joe Dimaggio and many more i am forgetting this is fun because everyone has his or her favorite to debate you and nobody is wrong.
Posted at 4:40PM on May 7th 2007 by Terry