Jim Delaney speaks! Hide the impressionable, weak-minded, and elderly!The creation of the Big Ten Network means conference officials likely will discuss expansion again, Commissioner Jim Delany said Wednesday....that's it? No accusing the SEC of nefarious genetic engineering? No whining about the mean Comcast man saying bad things about women's athletics he didn't even say? Well, I'm out of ideas for this post. Nevertheless, we forge on!
"I think we need to look at it in the next year," he said during a wide-ranging interview with Register reporters.
Delaney actually brings up an interesting point: now that the Big Ten is going to have its own TV network (assuming that it gets carried, which is dodgy), the motivation to add a twelfth team to the league is much greater. It's twelve more football games, a dozen additional basketball games, and another market to conquer. And the Big Ten has its eyes set on the biggest market of all: New York. The two schools the article cites are Rutgers and Syracuse. Syracuse has the advantage of richer history and a (much) better basketball program, but Rutgers brings both New Jersey and, evidently, the metro New York area into play. That is a lot of eyeballs.
The risk with Rutgers is obvious: someone picks off Schiano and you've got Temple in your conference all of a sudden. Though Schiano did turn down Miami this offseason... and he'd be much more likely to stay if he was definitely in one of the big boy conferences... and Rutgers is a great natural rivalry with Penn State... and the Big Ten could add a ninth conference game if this went down... and New Jersey's rich recruiting grounds would open like a flower... um. This actually seems like a really good idea. With Notre Dame in perpetual stonewall mode what with their NBC contract and all, Big Ten expansion has foundered waiting to find an appropriate dance partner. Syracuse, despite its mention here, is uninspiring. Mizzou? Iowa State? Pitt? For various reasons also uninspiring. Only the recent rise of Louisville and Rutgers has provided the Big Ten enticing options.
Yeah: Louisville. A rising power in both football and basketball (re-emergent in basketball, rather), UL would open up Kentucky and provide a small foothold in the south without going too far outside the Big Ten's natural boundaries. UL actually makes more geographical sense than any team other than Notre Dame. The problems lie in Louisville's status as a university -- is it good enough for the academic arm of the Big Ten, which, believe it or not, is kind of a Big Deal? -- and cultural status. UL's kind of a southern school; the Big Ten is definitely a Yankee conference. Could the two see eye to eye? Maybe. Maybe not.
Either way, the Big Ten now has hugely powerful motivation to expand on top of the whole championship game thing; I bet expansion happens within five years. I will not eat a shirt if it doesn't happen, though. FYI.
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 2)
1. 10 teams ... oy.
Jettison Penn State or something.
Posted at 1:09PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Brian
2. Brian's got it absolutely right!
The big TEN should get rid of Penn State, which could then join the Big East where it can resume its natural rivalries with Pitt and Rutgers.
http://beatvisitor.com
Posted at 1:25PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Beat Visitor
3.
The Big 10 academic side is a big deal (includes U of Chicago as well) and Louisville's not going to pass muster academically. All Big 10 universities are members of the Association of American Universities, a Research I consortium. That's become the de facto measuring point.
It's very, very doubtful the Big 10 presidents would sign off on a non AAU member joining without immediate plans to join (that led to some of the opposition among ND people, although the faculty were mostly for it). Louisville's not there, and it's unlikely that they would pass muster as a Research I institution. Do they even have PhD programs?
Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt are all members.
Here's the full list:
http://www.aau.edu/aau/aaufact.cfm
Posted at 1:54PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Andrew
4.
To be clear, that above post should read that it's very, very doubtful that the presidents would sign off on any school joining the Big 10 that didn't also have AAU membership or immediate plans to join the AAU.
It looks like Louisville has a few PhD programs (google search turned up PhDs in rhetoric and composition, some engineering programs, social work, and a MD/PhD medical research program).
I didn't see doctoral programs in most academic subjects, which is the AAU's standard (this could be wrong, I didn't look very hard) and I've never heard of anyone in my field doing grad work at Louisville. It would be a hard sell to the Big 10 presidents.
Posted at 2:10PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Andrew
5. Assuming that ND is out, I think Mizzou is a good fit. They are a border rival w/ Illinois and have competitive teams in football and basketball. Pitt is another good idea b/c it gives PSU a natural rival and forces JoPa to play them. Iowa State gives Iowa an instate rival, but the 2 team play every year in football, so they don't need to join. Just my 2 cents.
Posted at 2:16PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Fritz
6. Whichever direction the Big Ten goes, I agree that it's time to move on from ND. I think that ND's recent actions to reaffirm its status as a "national" team weigh significantly against them tying themselves down to a regional conference (maybe C-USA's got a shot). I guess what I'm getting at is that the Big Ten just needs to accept that ND just isn't that into them and really just wants her independence. I know that the Big Ten looks around and sees all of her friends settling down (even Army gave it a shot for a few years) and committing and just thinks that if they keep hanging around she'll decide she's ready to settle down herself and will pick them because they've always been so nice to her, letting her schedule games against them when she has the time and doesn't have anyone better to play or just wants to go out in her own neighborhood for a weekend. However, the fact is that they're being used. It's time to grow a pair and start looking at other options. (I they don't have shot with Georgia or anything but I've heard she's available for a short-term thing if UM is interested.) The options may not be as attractive, presently, but ND is still a question: The way I see it, she was really hot when she was young; she had a rough transition during her early-thirties; and she has now pulled herself together and become pretty milfish in her middle age. However, her hold on attractiveness is pretty tenuous--she'll be a crazy, old, cat-throwing lady in a decade or so. Rutgers and Louisville haven't always been hot so they'll appreciate our interest.
Posted at 4:06PM on Jul 26th 2007 by mhages
7. I don't get why Pitt isn't the obvious choice. It's a good school academically, it has a good basketball team and...at least the HISTORY of a good football team. It is in a talent rich area, and geographically makes more sense than, you know, Penn State. Plus there is the natural rivalry with the Nits...everything seems to make perfect sense. Pittsburgh is traditionally part of the Midwest anyway, at least according to political strategists.
Posted at 7:32PM on Jul 26th 2007 by Redriot
8. I think Mizzou is a good fit. They have the alumni base, are already a AAU/Research I institution. I am also confident that the donations and funding base would catch up and help move them to the middle of the pack in the Big 10.
Posted at 7:38PM on Jul 26th 2007 by KCMO
9. Pitt or Mizzou aren't as attractive as Rutgers or Syracuse because the Big Ten already has a foothold in their tv markets (Pittsburgh through Penn State and St. Louis through Illinois).
Rutgers and Syracuse bring New York and more money.
Posted at 11:52PM on Jul 26th 2007 by buddha
10. Good now one more conference that should realistically get a championship game. I don't think you can pick Rutgers and chance Schiano leaving. Syracuse seems like the better choice because of Brian's point about the tradition and better basketball program.
If it is Syracuse, what a list of marquee coaches the Big Ten will now have. How would you like to recruit basketball players against all those guys?
Posted at 2:31AM on Jul 27th 2007 by football predictions
11. Academically and geographically there are several decent arguments. But this is business, and Notre Dame is the only school that can afford independence, so that leaves Rutgers. If this network is not more likely to be carried in as many homes as possible, it simply doesn't work.
Posted at 2:56AM on Jul 27th 2007 by DeepakChoprah
12. I would love for UofL to join the Big 11. I thought it made better sense that the BE anyway. I know UofL does not have the FB tradition but they would bring imediate credibility to the BB teams.
Down side to UofL I think, they must increase their stadium to 80,000+. I know it is scheduled to increase to 64,000 by 09 and 84,000 by 2012. Then I guess my concern would be once the stadium is doubled, will they have the fan support to fill it?
Posted at 7:53AM on Jul 27th 2007 by David
13. Key academic membership is not the AAU, but rather the CIC, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, which includes the Big 10 schools and the U of Chicago. THAT'S the exclusive group that would mean Louisville and Missouri are dead on arrival for consideration.
Posted at 9:12AM on Jul 27th 2007 by Jackwraith
14. "Pittsburgh is traditionally part of the Midwest anyway, at least according to political strategists."
A good friend of mine lived in Pittsburgh for several years, and he says that the notion of Pitt being part of the Midwest would be considered laughable in the Pittsburgh area. Natives in that area consider themselves to be either Mid-Atlantic or Eastern, especially when it comes to sports.
Posted at 9:41AM on Jul 27th 2007 by Don
15. "Key academic membership is not the AAU, but rather the CIC, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, which includes the Big 10 schools and the U of Chicago. THAT'S the exclusive group that would mean Louisville and Missouri are dead on arrival for consideration."
If you look at the CIC member list, it's ONLY the Big Ten plus Chicago. Using pre-existing membership in the CIC as a yardstick makes no sense, since by that standard there is no school in the country that's eligible to join the conference.
Posted at 9:42AM on Jul 27th 2007 by Don
16. Don is correct. The CIC represents the academic arm of the Big 10, so whatever school is added to the athletic side would be added to the CIC. It appears that membership in the AAU is the measuring stick that is used to determine how well other prospective institutions would fit with the rest of the CIC.
Posted at 12:09PM on Jul 27th 2007 by Crunchy
17. Rutgers simply hasn't been sufficiently established as a big-time school to make sense for the Big Ten. Syracuse has a better tradition, many alumni in the metro NY area and could probably bounce out of its football doldrums in a real conference, not a hybrid like the Big East. If it's strictly Scarlet vs. Orange, give me SU every time.
If you want a longshot, consider Maryland. It has a solid athletic program -- since 2001, it's played in a major bowl game and won national titles in men's and women's basketball and men's soccer -- and would bring the Washington/Baltimore area fully into the Big Ten (where it has plenty of alums). And Maryland is contiguous to Pennsylvania. Academically, it would boost College Park's reputation; the question is whether it would benefit Maryland financially. In football, it definitely would, but losing the ACC basketball cachet might be too much.
Posted at 1:09PM on Jul 27th 2007 by Vincent
18. The BCS gets tweaked in an effort to improve; any thought of tweaking the Big 10 + 1 Conference rules that member schools must border neighboring states to include a school in Florida (University of South Florida). Here are the advantages: new member of the Big East, large school in the #13 media market (Tampa Bay), exposes the Big 10 to the fertile Florida recruiting base, large Big 10 alumni base and prime area to stage December conference championship game (Raymond James Stadium. Win-win situation.
Posted at 6:58PM on Jul 30th 2007 by BunnyMack
19.
Again, South Florida doesn't bring anything academic to the table for the other Big 10 member schools. The CIC allows grad students from member schools to attend a certain number of classes at any school in the CIC (this happens fairly frequently between grad students in the Michigan-Northwestern-Chicago-Wisconsin area), it gives reciprocal library privileges to faculty, it has some kind of internal interlibrary loan system, and it hosts academic conferences for faculty.
South Florida doesn't bring anything to the table for these parts of the Big 10 (CIC). Rutgers does, Pitt does, Syracuse does, they all have outstanding grad programs in different areas (RU - most liberal arts subjects, Pitt - medicine/bio, Syracuse - government/public policy). The Big 10 presidents are going to want to know what a member school brings to the CIC academically. If the answer is "lots of TV sets for those Big 10 ads," the presidents' answer will be no.
Posted at 11:10AM on Jul 31st 2007 by Andrew
20. Forget a longshot, there isn't a chance of Vandy in the BCS that Maryland would ever leave the ACC. Several points:
1. The DC metro area has alums from everywhere. There's even a bar on Capitol Hill that is devoted to Nebraska football.
2. The ACC is an established conference with strong ties to its past. Other eastern teams that have jumped ship (PSU and BC) were independent for a long time and found better alliances when opportunity knocked.
3. The whole reason the Big 10 would like to expand is for more revenue (i.e. ACC - Welcome Miami, VT, and BC). Oh yeah, Maryland is in the ACC. Not happening.
As for likely candidates for a 12th team, ND would be optimal. I would love to see it, but it's just not likely. ND doesn't need the Big Ten for football - why would they give up every game being shown on national TV? They have the Big East to round up the other sports. ND versus any Big 10 team would be fun to watch though. I surmise the annual Purdue and Michigan State games will have to suffice.
Pittsburgh would make the most sense considering they could see their own potential directly down at Penn State and get an immediate rival from back in the Lambert Trophy days. It's a good school, and it really fits with the hard-nosed Big 10 attitude.
Syracuse and Rutgers would be much more difficult. The biggest problem is the Orange stronghold and Scarlet uprising in New York City. Those lines run real deep and there would be a huge outcry if they bolted. It was a big deal when Penn State went Big 10 fifteen years ago, so there's precedence it could happen again.
Louisville, of course a bit unorthodox - but definitely possible. For basketball and football, there's already a rabid fan base. UL would certainly bring its own flavor to the Big 10. They've acclimated themselves before when they seemed out of place (like...as we speak), and it seems logical that they can do it again. They're not midwestern, but they're not eastern either. Besides, it's only a 2 hour drive from Bloomington. Now about the academics...
Iowa State is really the only other school that makes sense. But it's still Iowa State. Other than a big game with Iowa, what does the Big 10 really want from them? An average team at best in the Big 12? Kind of a tweener school in my opinion. There might be potential for ISU, but I don't think the Big 10 would gamble like that. They want a sure thing. Pass.
I'm out.
Posted at 10:34AM on Aug 2nd 2007 by Jeff