Among educated fans like you and I, the name David Eckstein is more likely to draw snickers than praise. But apparently, folks like you and I don't populate the White Sox front office. From the Chicago Sun-Times:St. Louis Cardinals free agent- to-be David Eckstein (above) is becoming target No. 1 on the Sox' offseason wish list. He would give them a leadoff hitter with a career .349 on-base percentage and a sure-handed shortstop. Plus, he and Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski worked together last offseason in a feud for TNA Wrestling. Team Eckstein won.I'm not even going to touch that wrestling stuff -- here's the back story on that, if you're interested. But what's that second sentence all about? Is a leadoff hitter with a .349 OBP supposed to be impress me? Isn't that, I don't know, decidedly mediocre for a leadoff man?
Actually, that's exactly what it is. Take a look at the aggregate totals for the Major League leadoff men this year: .279 BA, .346 OBP, .416 SLG. What's Eckstein's career line? Not exactly something to write home about: .284/.349/.358. Unfortunately, his line this year (.290/.334/.345) is even worse.
But hey, he's small and fast (though he hasn't stolen more than 11 bases since 2004), so he must be a good leadoff guy, right? Sure, for a team that strives to be average, I guess so.
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 3)
1. I can't believe that any knowedgable (sp) sports reporter woud write that article. He was the heart and soul of the Cards world series run last year.MP
He has been injured this year but still can make that team win. He would be my choice for a shortstop mainly because he can inspire the other players. Shame on you unless you are putting us on.
Posted at 5:43PM on Aug 31st 2007 by Bill Stanners`
2. What a shallow article. You must have totally been out of material to revert to this as your topic. Plus, you're pretty far off base. The hustle, heart and intensity of this man is what the team and the city respect - and he's "above average". You should be as good.
Posted at 6:30PM on Aug 31st 2007 by Tom
3. Its just the VORP kids flexing invisible muscle.
Geekdom unfortunately is the soup du`jour in the blogworld, gone are the days of investing in intangibles (you know, stuff that nerds cant calculate, so it frustrates them to no end.) The truth is that Eckstein is a winner. has been at almost every stop hes made, and its mostly due to the fact that he hustles, has a refuse to lose attitude, all while providing adequate numbers. Ill be the first to say the guy isnt Hank Aaron, or Ozzie Smith even, but hes a quality player regardless. Any team (with a mindset toward winning) would gladly take him.
Posted at 8:35PM on Aug 31st 2007 by claytor
4. Does anyone here recognize the importance of a leadoff hitter having a high on-base percentage? All the hustle in the world doesn't change the fact he gets on base 33% of the time.
Posted at 10:30PM on Aug 31st 2007 by Matt W.
5. as compared to what? the only player in baseball with an astronomical on base ratio is barry bonds.
graps some reality.
so youre fretting over a whopping .12 differential?
what a crock. 2 rings in five years, and if anyone of you corny statgeeks even dares to pretend as if eckstein wasnt a major cog in either victory? then just stop watching baseball.
Posted at 10:58PM on Aug 31st 2007 by claytor
6. Teams win with tis guy. What part of that do you not get? theleague is fl of talented big guys that are chokers.
RFH
Posted at 11:03PM on Aug 31st 2007 by Robert H
7. I love this guy... Best little man ...hustler in baseball... and look at his batting average...Better than just about every shortstop in both leagues....
Posted at 11:10PM on Aug 31st 2007 by ellen
8. Ugh, misspelled grasp.
Seriously, i think the whole "fantasy baseball" thing has created an epidemic of pseudo-knowledged GMs, truth is, we see numbers, and have no concept whatsover of the human aspect of the game. You and I and anyone else can and should agree that none of us spend time in these dugouts, or take fielding or batting practice, in short, were not players. This creates along with the geek element some kind of "know it all" atmosphere. Yes common sense, not stat wizardry dictates you need a high obp to be a leadoff hitter, but hey, guess what? Not every team has a Hanley or Jose Reyes. Honestly, beyond those two, the plateau really drops off. Why is it Eckstein gets dissed for having on base speed, and being a nuisance to pitching, yet Jeter gets mad love? What is that about? Isnt it...the same thing?
I just dont see the massive difference, and maybe thats because im not sucked into the whole stathead realm, and still comprehend and appreciate the human element of the game. You can be offended all you like, but its more often been the unlikely hero, and not the superstar whos won big games. From Marty Barrett to Bucky Dent to Eckstein himself slapping out a grand slam. Stop bickering over minor percentages, and try enjoying the game.
Posted at 11:25PM on Aug 31st 2007 by claytor
9. Numbers = Reality folks. For a leadoff hitter his OBP is horrible. I guess since he so very little and tries real hard....so he's AWESOME! Stop it. Wake up people.
Posted at 1:57AM on Sep 1st 2007 by Mike G.
10. For those who say don't look at the stats, look at the individual, I agree. I have been a Cardinal fan for 60 years. Although I agree that Eckstein has a lot of heart, if you watch the team play, you will notice that Eckstein gets most of his hits with no one on base. I know he is a leadoff hitter, but that is only the first time through the lineup.
His biggest problem is he chokes with men in scoring position especially with two outs. Check the stats on how many baserunners he leaves stranded. His inability to hit when he has the opportunity to drive in runs or extend an inning is why he will not be a Cardinal next year, not the stats others have posted.
Posted at 9:11AM on Sep 1st 2007 by JoeyD
11. Seriously, I hope and pray the White Sox sign Eckstein. Then they can go Eckstein-Podsednik-Erstad 1-2-3, and have the grittiest, hustlyest, heartiest, worst leadoff trio in the league.
Posted at 10:53AM on Sep 1st 2007 by PostmanE
12. stats = information that helps us evaluate how a player performs. its not nerdy. its common sense. why are people so afraid of common sense? its not the enemy of baseball. to call people into statistics and logic "nerds" is just...stupid. it's like, third grade level stupid. if that's what you want to be, fine. knock yourself out.
oh, and the cards did not win their world series because of gritty mchustlestein. a bigger factor may have been that guy, what's his name, you may have heard of him. i think its...albert pujols??
oh, i forgot. albert pujols is an amazingly productive hitter with mind boggling numbers, which means he doesnt hustle and is not gritty. he's just a big old robot who has never Overcome Adversity or inspired people with his play. Shame on him.
david eckstein is an average baseball player. the only reason people are so in love with him is because he's short.
Posted at 3:04PM on Sep 1st 2007 by ray
13. If I'm a fan of the Twins, Tigers, or Tigers, I hope and pray the White Sox sign Eckstein. Because, yes, he's a crappy player who happened to play for a couple teams who got hot.
He's gritty, he hustles, he tries REALLY HARD to throw all the way to First Base...and he sucks.
Posted at 3:05PM on Sep 1st 2007 by Wierzbowski
14. Oops - that should be Twin, Tigers, and INDIANS.
Posted at 3:07PM on Sep 1st 2007 by Wierzbowski
15. If there were a grit index, Eck's would be around .750 and would be the league leader every year that he played. With him and the gutty former kicker from Nebraska on the same team, the ChiSox will win exactly 0 World Series, 0 Division Titles, and 0 Wild Cards. But hey, at least no other team in the league would "outgrit" them. That's something.....right?
Posted at 3:07PM on Sep 1st 2007 by Kyle
16. Hey "statgeeks", didn't you guys know that anyone that plays on a championship team is better than anyone who has not won a championship?!?!
Can you honestly say you would rather have Reyes than Eckstein at short? I seriously doubt it. And if you sabrematre, sabermatheme, saburmetri... NERDS!!! want to look at some numbers, how about this;
Hits:
Eck- 1045
Reyes- 691
Runs:
Eck- 541
Reyes- 402
World Series Titles:
Eck- 2
Reyes- 000000
There it is, proof for you numbers geeks that Eck would undoubtedly be a better player to have on your team than Reyes because he makes your team win championships all by himself!
Posted at 3:15PM on Sep 1st 2007 by motz
17. For those who mention the fact that he's been on two World Series champs in five years fail to mention one thing: those teams had WAY better players than him. On the Angels, Glaus, Anderson, Salmon, Lackey, Washburn, and that whole bullpen, especially K-Rod, were big keys. On the Cards, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Carpenter, Suppan, and the super work by the 'pen and other starters in the postseason were keys. All of those guys were more responsible for their respective titles than Eckstein. Not to say Eckstein was a non-factor, but his influence was much smaller than the media made it out to be.
Posted at 3:29PM on Sep 1st 2007 by ejschumi
18. Coming up with new stats to measure a players value is not nerdy. We want to use new ways to evaluate talent and it is like "Fuck you, nerd, what do you know?" Jesus Christ, do you always act like this when a new way is presented? You arrogant, intagible, Joe Morgan dick sucking pricks piss me off.
Posted at 3:30PM on Sep 1st 2007 by Joseph
19. "david eckstein is an average baseball player. the only reason people are so in love with him is because he's short."
You forgot "white."
Posted at 3:38PM on Sep 1st 2007 by PostmanE
20. > Hey "statgeeks", didn't you guys know that anyone
> that plays on a championship team is better than
> anyone who has not won a championship?!?!
This is a joke, right? *Please* tell me it is. I certainly don't expect every baseball fan out there to become a devotee of WARP, VORP, etc... but c'mon; any idiot who has watched a single game knows this can't be true. I guess any GM out there who is worth his salt should focus his attention on the mop-up men from any of the last few WS winners, or maybe their third string catcher, rather than say, A-rod, or someone like him who can hit 40+ home runs and drive in 150 (maybe those "old fashioned" stats will help make my point). And we all know that a guy who has scored five hundred runs over the last ten years is *way* more valuable than one who has scored only 400 over the last four.
Posted at 3:59PM on Sep 1st 2007 by David