I think every baseball fan, whatever their view of performance enhancing drugs in baseball, is interested in seeing how the players of the steroid era fare in voting for Cooperstown. Mark McGwire's already on the ballot but the next 10 years will be full of fascinating cases because of the balance of great numbers and possibly nefarious means used to accumulate them. Most of us wonder about Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens but Joe Buck has his sights set on a another, rarely discussed Hall of Fame candidacy. During Saturday's Mets-Yankees game, Tim McCarver mentioned that no pitcher who was 100 games over .500 in their career has been kept out of Cooperstown. Bob Raissman of the Daily News brings us their conversation.
"Yeah, but not one of those pitchers (who were 100 games over and enshrined in Cooperstown) ever admitted to taking HGH," Buck replied.
McCarver: "(Pettitte said he took HGH) Only once."
Buck did not respond. He already made his point. We cannot read minds. Still, considering his tone of voice, and his straightforward manner, Buck was not so much casting aspersions on Pettitte, but injecting reality into the conversation.Not really. If Buck wanted to inject reality into the conversation, he would have said despite a strong won-loss record, Pettitte doesn't have much else to recommend his enshrinement.
HGH has a lot less to do with that than a career with contemporaries like Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Clemens, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and others who were better pitchers than Pettitte. He's a slightly better version of Jimmy Key who pitched on much better teams. Has anyone really been having this discussion? Pettitte belongs in the Hall of the Very Good, nothing more and nothing less.
I'd love to hear the argument of the writer that would otherwise vote for Pettitte that gets stopped because of HGH. It's disingenuous of Buck to inject that into the debate about Pettitte. He might as well say that Jay Gibbons won't get in because of HGH. He'd be right, neither guy is getitng in, but he's just playing a role not taking a principled stand. Talk about Clemens or Bonds or McGwire (Buck's hugging partner, if you'll recall), because there's actual room for debate and save the other moralizing for somewhere other than the broadcast booth.
(H/T BBTF)
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
7-01-2008 @ 3:59PM
Jmaneuv011 said...
A great won-loss record for great teams doesn't make him a Hall of Famer
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7-01-2008 @ 7:51PM
jevelina said...
Maybe Pettitte won't make the HOF but it is asure bet Joe Buck or 25cent won't be going either,not with that type of journalism Pick a better topic JOE maybe it will be news worthy
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7-01-2008 @ 8:06PM
jackson said...
Buck is full of it..Pettitte is a real professional..I'd vote for Pettitte in a heartbeat..and vote to get Buck off the air the sameway.
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7-01-2008 @ 8:09PM
Kim said...
Joe Buck, he is a joke and nothing but a useless announcer who displays his hatred of the Yankees every single time he does a game whether the Yankees are playing or not. I doubt anyone whose opinion really matters took anything he said seriously. Most people watch them two with their televisions on mute anyway.
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7-01-2008 @ 8:11PM
J.D. Ryan said...
Joe Buck is in the mediocre pantheon of announcers who couldn't carry his father's mic case.
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7-01-2008 @ 8:14PM
Travlinman said...
I love it!!!! When it concerns the Patriots and spygate anything goes but when the Yankees cheat and someone calls them on it there's all this outrage. I hate Buck but he had the right to say what he did. They win 3 world series in 4 years with their top two pitchers on Roids. That's cheating to the worst degree. Come on NY media why don't you have the Balls to give an asterik by those titles? Total hypocrites.
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7-01-2008 @ 9:32PM
ted said...
It's a good thing Joe Bucks father was born before him. That's the only reason he is broadcasting.Otherwise Joe would be working at Wal-Mart where he belongs.
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7-01-2008 @ 10:21PM
NYC Financial Planner said...
Pettitte is a Hall of Famer. He was never a huge freak like McGwire.
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7-01-2008 @ 10:49PM
glyon97938 said...
I suggest you compare Petitte's career with Don Sutton and Phil Niekro. Sutton was never more than a No. 3 pitcher on any staff he was on. Niekro is a little more than a .500 pitcher. Both, in my opinion, should have never been elected. Niekro is, by reputation, one of the nicest guys, but it still doesn't change the fact that he is only slightly better than .500. Look at his career. Granted both Sutton and Niekro have 300+ wins but that was because they both play for 50 years (okay, more like 24 or 25). Petitte compares quite favorably to these two. The only issue with him is the association with that fraud, Clemens. Even with that I do not think it is big issue. Longevity plus mediocrity should not be a formula for the hall of fame. And how does Reggie "I can't catch a fly ball" Jackson get elected before Andre Dawson? Dawson was considered, and rightly so, the most preemminent player of his time. He had all of the tools. His only negative is that he did not play in NYC where Reggie benefitted from all of the publicity. Dawson had all of the tools. Reggie had only a hammer.
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7-01-2008 @ 11:29PM
Zack Barnes said...
Joe Buck is worth a lot less then his name. Worth about 10 cents. I turn the sound off when he is there and watch the game. He should SHUT UP!! I am glad he does not have a vote since he does not know anything about baseball. Also, Andy Pettitte broke NO RULES!! It was not against the rules when he used HGH once! I also think there are a LOT of players who should be in the Hall of Fame that are not there. I want to see loads of players when I go to the hall, not only a couple.
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7-02-2008 @ 4:16AM
Bill Jones said...
Joe Buck belongs someplace where talent is not a requirement for employment or success---but wait, he is---he's on FOX!
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7-02-2008 @ 5:24AM
Mario said...
I agree with Buck that Pettite does not belong in the Hall of Fame, however not because of HGH but because Pettite does not have the numbers as other HOFers!
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7-02-2008 @ 6:33AM
j said...
Jo Buck,or "Pinhead" as I so ungratiously call him, is one holier than though dude. He and his other mid-western ex-player now-announcer partner, his name beslips me at this moment, are the two worst announcers in sports today. They are boring, boringwer, boringest. I'm a Red Sox fan, from Boston, and Andy P., for both his honesty and also his pitching prowess, is not only a great pitcher but also a great person. Hall of Fame material.. I don't know. But that's not my, nor Joe Buckhead's, decision to make or try to influence.
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7-02-2008 @ 6:42AM
PFS said...
Pettite will have a realistic shot at the Hall, perhaps as one of the first of the 'new generation' pitchers. As Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and crew wander begrudgingly into the sunset, the 40+ year olds will also very possibly be taking the last 300+ win careers with them, if Glavine ever makes it there. Making HoF comparisons between the next generation of pitchers and guys like Jim Palmer, Steve Carlton, and further back will be ludicrous, no starting pitcher will ever make it. Voters will have to compare the players to their era, and that's going to mean guys like Pettite, Mussina, Schilling, Hudson, etc will have to compared to each other. Do I think Pettite is a Hall of Famer? Not particularly, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out that others will see his role in the multiple Yankees championships in the late 90s as a big positive in his favor.
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7-02-2008 @ 9:18AM
bxfreakinrican68 said...
joe buck is an idiot to throw that into the conversation...pettitte is 1 of the few REAL professionals in the game. yes he used HGH but it wasnt for a competitive edge, it was to make the healing process of a shoulder injury quicker...joe, how about u stop being an idiot and talk about something worth listening too..u keep on like this n im pretty sure no1 would vote u in the HOF for ur stupidity
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7-02-2008 @ 5:31PM
Jeff said...
I totally agree with "Travlinman" on this one about NY getting all up in arms when one of their players gets called out or hinted at for something other than saving the world. When its someone like BOS or anyone else, NY fans are like "Serves them losers right!" Now the shoe is on the other foot, boys! Buck has taken indirect shots at players of other teams for years. I couldn't even handle him in the 2004 ALCS, and my team won! Still take him with a grain of salt. So, NY, quit your damn crying and go suck your thumbs somewhere else with that!
As for Pettite, I couldn't care less about his possible limited HGH use. I'm on the fence about whether I think he should get in the Hall. Guy's been around a long time and has been one heck of a work force through the Yankee runs and championships. Can't take away from his contribution to the team! Just don't know if dedication will help his chances at Cooperstown.
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7-02-2008 @ 6:02PM
kara said...
if joe buck want to hate on andy. maybe he should praise him for telling the truth about using HGH and being a man about it. not like joe's buddy mcguire who pleaded the 5th and still won't admit he has or still is taking steroids ( and has anyone seen what he loks like now)... or not to mention clemens who just lied and still lying. andy is a man who owns his mistake and proves that he is a great person first pitcher second.
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7-02-2008 @ 7:13PM
NeonDon said...
The guy isn't dead yet! He's only 36. Discuss is HOF candidacy when he's 42 and has won 60-80 more games. Who would have included guys like Robin Yount, Paul Molitar, Eddie Murray, etc., when they were 36 and had 4-6 years left.
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7-02-2008 @ 10:21PM
peter said...
Buck's comments are just another display of his hatred of the Yankees but more importantly his stupidity and ignorance. He moralizes from behind a microphone. I doubt he would ever have the guts to say that to Petitte's face or near any of his teammates...when was the last time Buck threw a pitch instead of a comment..it's like a judge in a talent contest..if you don't have the talent, you have no right judging....
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7-03-2008 @ 7:07AM
steve said...
Oh yes. To be sports pitcher, you have to be talented.
I've seen great announcers come our way.
None took cheap shots at players.
Is sponcers telling announcer these days to do this
to hike ratings. Probly so. In this multi million dollor industry, Nothing is more important then ratings.EVERYONE WILL BE WATCHING Joe buck NOW TO SEE WHAT HE SAYS ON t.v. Look at this BLOB, we responded to it.
CASE AND POINT....
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