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The Dugout.

Putting Together the Ultimate Rotation

By LARRY STONE,

AOL

Posted: 2008-05-14 13:10:17

Filed Under: MLB

Sports Commentary

Roger Clemens was all about power and speed and intimidation, even if that package at the end might have been artificially enhanced. He was a classic speedballer, more fire than finesse. The Rocket would blow hitters away, pure and simple.

Greg Maddux, on the other hand, was an artist, a craftsman. Still is, in fact. He is all about deception and guile and pinpoint control. Maddux leaves hitters muttering in frustration at pitches on the black, slow when they're looking fast, fast when they're thinking slow. He out-smarts hitters, pure and simple.

They are the two aces of our generation, and now it is Maddux who is standing tallest. He racked up his 350th victory on Saturday, leaving him ninth on the all-time list, four behind Clemens. But a closer look at the victory leaders shows just how radically good both pitchers are. Of the seven names above them, only one pitched after 1930 -- Warren Spahn, who retired in 1965. So only one pitcher in the past 78 years, and none in the past 43, has racked up more victories than these two, who worked in the age of five-man rotations and pitch counts and relief specialists.

If one were to compile the ultimate rotation of the past 25 years -- and we're about to do so, in an amazing coincidence -- there's no doubt that Maddux and Clemens would be 1 and 1a. Until last November, I probably would have given the slight edge to Clemens, on the basis of his huge lead in strikeouts. But in light of Clemens' steroids taint, and the fact that Maddux appears to have done his devastating work cleanly, I'll reverse that order.

Here is my five-man rotation from the past quarter-century, with three starters in reserve, and two closers:

1. Greg Maddux, Padres. Out of all those magnificent seasons -- 17 straight years of at least 15 victories, and the four consecutives Cy Youngs from 1992-95 -- my favorite might be the strike-shortened year of 1994.

Maddux was a man among boys: 10 complete games out of 25 starts, a 16-6 record, 150 hits allowed in 202 innings, with just four home runs; 156 strikeouts and 31 walks, with an ERA of 1.56. But don't overlook that 19-2 record and 1.63 ERA in '95 (making him the first pitcher since Walter Johnson in 1918-19 to have back-to-back years under 1.80 ERA).

And let's not even get into the 17 Gold Gloves.

2. Roger Clemens, inactive. Amazingly, Clemens and Maddux, through Maddux's last start, have identical career ERAs of 3.12.

Clemens does have Maddux by more than 1,300 strikeouts, and a strong case could be made that he owns the more dominating statistical package. But the taint of the Mitchell Report throws into question the legitimacy of Clemens' later achievements dating to 1998, when he won the fifth of his seven -- seven! -- Cy Young awards.

3. Pedro Martinez, Mets. Pedro's arm finally let him down, but long after the Dodgers gave up on him because they thought he was too slight to be a starter. Don't ever forget how ridiculously dominant Martinez was for one glorious stretch from 1997-2003 -- arguably better than any seven-year stretch by either Maddux or Clemens. His 2000 season with the Red Sox, in which he gave up 128 hits in 217 innings, striking out 284 and walking just 32, was truly one for the ages.

4. Randy Johnson, Diamondbacks. The most fearsome pitcher of them all, Clemens included. With that scowl, that scraggly mop of hair, that long stride that seemed to reach halfway to the batter's box, and mostly that lethal fastball and slider from the left side, no one was ever comfortable going up against the Big Unit. He struggled with his control early in his career, but after a tutorial from Nolan Ryan, Johnson became dominant in 1993 and stayed that way for more than a decade.

Four straight Cy Youngs with Arizona (plus one with Seattle) and transcendent postseasons in '95 and '01 are his legacy.

5. Tom Glavine, Braves. The left-handed Maddux in many ways, Glavine had five 20-win seasons and five more of at least 15 and stands at 303 victories and counting.

6. John Smoltz, Braves. That Smoltz-Glavine-Maddux triumvirate from the Braves' heyday just grows in stature.

Considering that they had some pretty fair No. 4s -- Steve Avery, Denny Neagle, Kevin Millwood -- it's amazing that Atlanta came away with just one World Series title. Smoltz has the distinction of being a top-of-the-rotation stud with tremendous postseason success, and a first-rate closer for a three-year stretch.

7. Mike Mussina, Yankees. With 16 consecutive years of double-digit wins and counting, Mussina stands at 255 victories, putting him at least in the argument for the Hall of Fame. Severely underrated.

8. David Wells, inactive. His buffoonish tendencies obscure the fact that he has had one fine career -- 239 victories, a .604 winning percentage, a perfect game, a 10-5 postseason record and two World Series rings.

9. Closer: Mariano Rivera, Yankees. Who else could it possibly be? Rivera is arguably both the greatest regular-season and postseason closer of all time (though he's not impeccable; Mo's blown save in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series prevented a four-peat by the Yankees). At age 38, that cut fastball is still a lethal weapon; Rivera did not give up a run (and allowed just six hits) in his first 15 appearances in 2008.

10. Closer: Trevor Hoffman, Padres. Yes, he's in decline, but Hoffman is the all-times saves leader (530, the last one locking up Maddux's 350th win), a sure-fire Hall of Famer, and nearly automatic for more than a decade. In 1998, he saved 53 games, had a 1.48 ERA, and gathered more first-place Cy Young votes, than the winner, Glavine.

I'll take my chances with that group against any 10 from any era.

2008-05-14 01:04:44

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roytimberlake 02:30:23 PM May 19 2008

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The hall of fame. I must look at it as I have since I was 10 yrs old. Who belongs in the boardroom. Only the most awesome. The ones where my jaw drops. The one that says: ' Dad when you saw Johnson thow to Ruth was he the greatest you ever saw'? Many can be chosen to enter. Who? Tell ME who belongs behind those do not disturb doors? Perhaps Young wasn't the best, time, his 511 wins, no known steriods, anything else, perhaps being those 30 win seasons. Can Mr. Maddux enter through these doors? Over time we may lok back seing his numbers legendary. Maddux enters the hall of fame, Sorry, not the boardrom yet. RUTH, COB, YOUNG, GEHRIG, MUSIAL, well their we are again who is board member; who is is an executive? So Clemens in? Not as a boardmember. Could be an enron rom to. Bonds, Rose.

roytimberlake 02:08:11 PM May 19 2008

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Choosing a player you must place in his rotunda of time an illussionary enviroment. King Arthurs roundtable in session. Who will we send to defend this teams stake in history for all-time? We have no tomorrow. We have now. Yet we must protect the the auora of of the games presence over time to past, Who shall defend thislegendary team? A one game warrior; hmm, Schilling; Smoltz...etc. Someone to defend to the end. Huh, Lights out-- then Rivera. Though I must be able to get there in one piece. Clemens,too much else goingon. Yet he is always win. Maddux, MartinezColon, Magy.Petite. ... Oh. Seaver, Gibson, Lolich Grove Jojnson, Young. No! No! Wake me up that was then. Not much chance do I have. Oh, if only for the days of old.

flashfood 08:37:09 AM May 18 2008

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MUSSIA ??? YOU MUST BE JOKING.......AS A YANKEE FAN FOR MANY YEARS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TEAM HE'S HAD BEHIND HIM ( SOME SAY " THE BEST MONEY CAN BUY " ) AND HE'S NEVER BEEN A GOOD PICTHER AGAINEST THE IST DIV. TEAMS OR FOR THE MOST PART IN THE PLAYOFF OR THE WORLD SERIES , THIS GUY IS VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY OVER RATED. HE HAS NEVER WON 20 GAMES IN A SEASON , AND TWO YEARS AGO HE HAD 10 WINS AT THE ALL-STAR BREAK AND COULD DO IT. THIS YEAR WITH 6 WINS NOT ONE IS AGAINEST A DIV. EAST TEAM AND SO LIKE OTHERS ON THIS LIST HE'LL PITCH 20 ,21,22, YEARS AND WILL GET THE 300 WINS. THE YANKEES COULD HV SPENT THAT MONEY BETTER IN THE LONG RUN, AND YES WHEN WE GOT HIM I TOUGHT LIKE MGNT THAT WE WERE FILLING A NUMBER 1-2-BUT NO WORST THAN 3 SPOT IN THE ROTATION. HE WAS ====NEVER==== NOR =====WILL BE==== EVER A # 1 HERE, FOR THE MOST PART POSS. A # 2 FOR ONE OR TWO YRS, BUT FOR THIS MONEY A #3 PICTHER POSS. A # 4 ????, I AGAIN SAY " YOU HV TO BE JOKING........PICK SOMEONE ELSE........

patmccrary37 07:59:10 PM May 16 2008

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I certainly respect Ryan's career and feel he deserves the Hall of Fame. Nevertheless, he doesn't meet the standard of greatness bestowed upon those such as Clemens, Maddux , Koufax and Martinez. While capable of dominance, as evidenced by his seven no-hitters, an examination of the numbers will show a number of good to very good seasons earmarked by high strikeout and walk totals, a lackluster win-loss percentage and ERAs generally north of 3.00. In fact, a comparison of his statistical production with those of two much less ballyhooed contemporaries, Don Sutton and Phil Niekro, reveals a great deal of similarity between the three. With this knowledge, one might find it puzzling that Nolan Ryan was a first ballot inductee into the HOF while Sutton and Niekro had to wait several years. Then again, neither Niekro and Sutton had the 100 mph fastball and the wicked curve that Ryan had; fortunately for them their seemingly more modest tools were just as effective.

mdkin01 01:56:09 PM May 16 2008

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No way Wells makes this list. I assume this is from about 1990 to present. Where is Schilling? Oswalt has been as good or better than Wells. Halladay is better than Wells. What about Santana? Mussina was good for about the 1st half of his career but not now. Sabathia has been strong for a while.

yryriza 12:41:18 PM May 16 2008

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s321saint 11:07:11 AM May 16 2008

Report This! For the modern era..you HAVE to include Nolan Ryan. I find it interesting that the writer commented on Roger's seven Cy Youngs, cut somehow couldnt even TALK about Nolan Ryan's much more difficult SEVEN NO HITTERS?

NOLAN RYAN WAS A STRIKEOUT MACHINE, BUT FOR 27 SEASONS PLAYED HE HAD ALMOST 300 LOSSES TO GO WITH HIS 300 WINS.

s321saint 11:07:11 AM May 16 2008

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For the modern era..you HAVE to include Nolan Ryan. I find it interesting that the writer commented on Roger's seven Cy Youngs, cut somehow couldnt even TALK about Nolan Ryan's much more difficult SEVEN NO HITTERS?

thomcit 02:28:06 PM May 15 2008

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Nolan Ryan was great. He definately deserves to be in th Hall. However. Ryan was not consistently great. He was consistently average (which is good,not great)

mrmikebruins8 01:42:59 PM May 15 2008

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no schilling 7-1 in the playoffs and 3 w/s mvp in az where do these guys get this sh*t a from high school news paper

catbobclark 08:28:50 AM May 15 2008

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Like he rest of you, I question including Mussina and Wells, but all in all this would be a pretty fair pitching staff for any team.

HOWEVER, to end by saying he'd put this group up against any ten from any era is where he loses credibility.

Starting with a dominant lefty, albeit a short career, Koufax and a sure winner righty, Ryan and add a long reliever like Ron Perranoski and a closer like Eckersley wouldbe a no-brainer four. Then there's a long list of great starters to fill in the other six, without even going back to the era of Cy Young and Walter Johnson and the likes.

In no particular order, and not taking lefty/righty or length of careers into consideration I think you could build a decent rotation around any of these guys, Warren Spahn, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Tommy Johns, Bob Feller, Jim Palmer, Carl Hubbel, Catfish Hunter, Niekro, Carlton, Perry, etc. and I haven't added any more relievers like Fingers, Gossage and company.

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